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富尔茨和鲍尔谁更强|一个在上升 一个在退步?

【键盘侠】富尔茨和鲍尔谁更强|一个在上升 一个在退步?

Markelle Fultz has been playing pretty well this year and Lonzo has yet to find his stride in New Orleans.Is Fultz better than Lonzo now?

富尔茨这个赛季打得蛮不错,而鲍尔在新奥尔良却是举步维艰。所以现在的富尔茨比鲍尔更强吗?

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[–]Lakers euge_music 602 指標 12小時前

Yes right now hes playing way better

湖人球迷:是啊,富尔茨现在比鲍尔打得好太多了

[–]Pacers F lowersInACup 268 指標 11小時前

And there is a difference between playing better now and being better. It’s too early to say Fultz is better, we don’t have the body of work for it to be proven.

步行者球迷:打得好和现在打得好之间还是有很大差别的。现在说富尔茨更强还太早了些,目前咱们所看到的内容还不够有说服力。

[–][SAC] De’Aaron Fox Bagel_Technician 104 指標 10小時前

Yep both have really not played enough games

I think end of this season if both stay healthy will be the right time to evaluate them

国王球迷:是啊,他俩打得比赛都不够多。

我觉得这赛季末要是俩人都能保持健康,那会儿就能评估孰强孰弱了。

[–]We_The_Raptors 14 指標 9小時前

Also reminds me of Fox last season. He’s got objectively better stats, but all 3 guys are like 20 years old. You gotta be arrogant af to pretend you can project which guy is gonna have the best career. Just look at some of the greatest point guards of all time. It takes guys like Stockton, Payton, Kidd, Nash and Curry years to reach the peaks we remember them for. Guys like Magic that put up numbers right away are the exception, not the rule.

他俩也让我想起了上赛季的福克斯。他的数据比鲍尔和富尔茨都好看,可是这三人都20左右。要是这会儿你就说你能预测出谁能拥有一个最棒的职业生涯,那就太荒唐了。看看某些历史顶级控卫的发展就知道了。斯托克顿、佩顿、基德、纳什和库里这些人花了几年时间才达到我们所熟知的巅峰期。像魔术师这种出道就高光的是特例,而不是常例。

[–]Kings coachadam 61 指標 9小時前

De’Aaron Fox has had a noticeably better nba career than either of these two. I’ll be the arrogant af one and say he’s the best of these 3 right now and has the most long term potential due to his athletic ability. Being voted the fastest player with the ball in the NBA by your peers tells you exactly how athletic he is. Ball and Fultz are barely NBA starters and Fox was dominant before the injury, honestly it’s not really a valid comp between those 3. Fox has a better record in every way over those 2.

国王球迷:福克斯目前的生涯表现要比鲍尔和富尔茨强多了吧。我就是大胆地说一句,他现在是他们仨里最强的,而且长期来看,福克斯的天赋也是最强的,因为他的运动能力在那儿。毕竟福克斯被同行票选为联盟有球速度最快的球员,这就恰恰说明了他的运动天赋。鲍尔和富尔茨连NBA首发都够呛,福克斯在伤前可是很有统治力的,强行那他们仨比较其实是牵强的。福克斯目前样样都比另外两个强。

[–]blckblt416[] 88 指標 10小時前

Well Ball has been playing for 3 years now and still doesn’t really look like an NBA player. You can say it’s too early but it doesn’t look like Lonzo ball is the answer to this question.

鲍尔都在NBA打了三个赛季了,还是不像个NBA球员。你可以说为时尚早,不过感觉鲍尔还真经不起时间的检验。

[–]Suns K ushOJ 100 指標 9小時前

Lonzo is a weird player man. His pros are really fucking good, but his cons are really fucking bad. He’s a great passer, and plays good defense. Then you see he’s a horrific shooter, from everywhere and horrible at finishing at the rim.

These career shooting splits are so pathetic: 38% FG, 32% 3PT, 46% FT, 46% TS. That has to be the worst of all time right?

太阳球迷:鲍尔这个球员很奇怪。他的优点确实很特么不错,不过缺点也是菜的一批。他的传球很好,防守不错。但是投射很菜,篮下终结稀烂。

他地生涯三项命中率低得可怜:命中率38%,三分32%,罚球46%,真实命中率46%。这算得上是史上最菜了吧?

[–]Bucks MWisBest 70 指標 8小時前

46% FT? Holy fuck. I knew he was a bad shooter but I didn’t realize it was that bad. This dude is a fucking professional athlete smh

雄鹿球迷:46%的罚球命中率?我尼玛。我以前就知道他投射差,没想到居然可以这么差啊。这哥们儿还真特么是个职业运动员啊。

[–]Nuggets TheThingsIdoatNight 38 指標 8小時前

Lol he knows it too, the dude is afraid of going to the line. He literally only took 48 FTs last year

掘金球迷:哈哈哈,鲍尔自己也知道啊,他很害怕站上罚球线。上赛季他只有48次罚球。

[–][HOU] Yao Ming OldAccountHadRussH8 74 指標 7小時前

what a pussy harden took that many in one game

火箭球迷:真是个菜鸡,这是我哈登一场比赛的量。

[–]Supersonics rjcarr 13 指標 6小時前

And would go 46/48.

超音速球迷:而且你登可以48中46

[–][LAL] D’Angelo Russell JoshTheLakerFan 14 指標 7小時前

I honestly think that’s one of the reasons his FT% is so bad as well. He goes to the line once a game pretty much and goes 1/2 a lot.

湖人球迷:讲真,我觉得这就是鲍尔罚篮菜的原因之一。他常常一场比赛就罚球两次,经常2中1.

[–]Mavericks Alex_Sander077 16 指標 7小時前

I always read the argument that he’s a great defender. That’s like the #1 thing everyone says about him. Well let me tell you something, we played against NOLA three times already, and didn’t see ANYTHING of that amazing defense y’all talking about. He was average to bad. Not to hate on the guy, just what I honestly saw in those games.

独行侠球迷:我总能看到有人说他是个很强的防守人。每个人谈鲍尔的时候好像首先就会夸他的防守。那我可得说道说道了。我们这赛季已经和鹈鹕打过3次了,压根就没看到你们交口称赞的鲍尔那种出色的防守。他的水平介于平均线到差等之间。我也不是喷他,就是根据我所看到的进行评价。

[–]Lakers Rocky2416 13 指標 5小時前

Haven’t seen him play this year but Lonzo did play really good defense for us last year. He struggled at a lot of things but defense wasn’t one of them.

湖人球迷:这赛季还没看过鲍尔的比赛,不过他上赛季在我湖的防守确实不错。他当时很多方面都不行,不过防守不在其中。

[–][SAS] Tim Duncan Dsarg_92 8 指標 3小時前

Facts. I’ve always said he was a defensive anchor for you guys last season.

马刺球迷:事实。上赛季我老是说,鲍尔就是你湖的防守核心。

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[–]King CW23 1615 指標 11小時前

I feel like Lonzo compares to Dante Exum. The potential is unreal but it’s not coming along fast enough and plagued with injuries. Both elite defenders and bad outside shooters but have crazy athleticism.

国王球迷:我感觉鲍尔可以和丹特-艾克萨姆比。都极有潜力,不过没咋兑现,而且伤病还不少。这俩都是顶级防守人,菜鸡外线投射,但是运动天赋极强。

[–]Lakers CravingKoreanFood 27 指標 8小時前

idk about crazy athleticism and unreal potential. Sure their athletic and both have potential. Lets not act like they can be generational talents

湖人球迷:你说的那些极强的运动天赋和极有潜力,我不知道。确实,他俩都有运动能力和潜力。但还不至于搞得像顶级天赋一样。

[–]76ers bicyclingdonkey 84 指標 8小時前

bad outside shooters

Which is funny to me since one of his main skills in college was 3pt shooting! But it seemed inevitable it would be mad exposed with his stupid shot mechanics

76人球迷:“菜鸡外线投射”

我就觉得这个很搞人,因为鲍尔大学时期的主要技能就是三分投射。不过他那种愚蠢的出手姿势貌似将他的缺点暴露无遗。

[–]binhpac 20 指標 7小時前

There is a reason, some shooters are really good in college, but never succeeded in the NBA. (Yes, there are exceptions like JJ Reddick.)

Look for example how many scoring records Jimmy Fredette broke in college.

It’s a different ballgame in the NBA with much more athletism.

这也是有原因的,有些人在大学投篮很厉害,可是到了NBA就行不通了。(对,雷迪克这种人是例外)

拿弗雷戴特举例吧,这家伙大学时期可是打破过很多得分记录的。

到了NBA这种到处是运动怪物的舞台,那就不一样了。

[–]BubbaTee 33 指標 6小時前

Jimmer could shoot in the NBA, he was a 40% 3pt shooter in his first 3 seasons. His problem was he couldn’t do anything else, especially defensively and being a PG. He only averaged 3.6 ast/36 minutes during that time, which shows what a black hole he was.

弗雷戴特到了NBA也是能投的,头三个赛季他的三分命中率有40%啊。他的问题是除了投篮啥也干不了,尤其是防守和做好控卫本职。他在NBA拿几个赛季,每36分钟只能贡献3.6次助攻,这就是他的短板。

[–]Qing_James 69 指標 8小時前

Longer 3 pt line in NBA + faster lengthier defenders. A lot of the times in college they use the zone more so you get more clean look opportunities when they crowd the paint.

NBA的三分线更远,而且你面对的防守人要更快且更高。大学篮球会更多地采取区域防守,所以大家都挤在内线时,你就能得到更多的空位机会。

[–]whatweshouldcallyou 7 指標 7小時前

I like this comparison. Yeah there are some differences in their games but both are tall, athletic point guards whose injuries and lack of outside shooting have hampered their careers.

At this point it is hard to not see Lonzo has a career 10/7/6 guy, which is far from awful but not what people were expecting.

拿鲍尔和艾克萨姆比较还是蛮合适的。的确,他俩的比赛风格有些区别,不过他俩都高,都是能跑善跳的控卫,同时伤病缠身、外线投射菜。

就现在来看,鲍尔以后可能会拥有一个10+7+6的职业生涯,这算不上太水,不过这不是大家的预期。

[–]mrkesh 8 指標 6小時前

Regardless of who’s better between Fultz and Lonzo I have to say I find it funny that Lonzo went from being the guy that would break Magic’s record to a Dante Exum-like player….

且不说鲍尔和富尔茨之间谁更好,不过我觉得有趣的是,鲍尔从当初那个被大家吹嘘说会打破魔术师纪录的人,沦落到如今艾克萨姆一样的球员……

[–]Knicks BigDickNick97 6 指標 4小時前

I’m not trying to say lonzo is an all star, buts he not a Dante exum type player… lonzo is way better it’s not even close

尼克斯球迷:我不觉得鲍尔是全明星,但他还不至于是艾克萨姆这种球员……鲍尔强得多啊。

[–]Bulls FIVE_DARRA_NO_HARRA 709 指標 10小時前

Exum is much quicker

公牛球迷:艾克萨姆要比鲍尔快多了。

[–]Jazz curryone 50 指標 9小時前

I think Lonzo’s handles are better though

爵士球迷:不过我觉得鲍尔的控球更强。

[–]Trail Blazers kahyote484 833 指標 9小時前

Lonzo is a better passer and defender. Decent comp though.

开拓者球迷:鲍尔的传球和防守更厉害,不过我觉得这个比较还是合理的。

[–]zxc123zxc123 255 指標 8小時前

While Lonzo being a better passer is true, but I feel Lonzo’s true strengths are his:

Natural and/or developed unselfish desire to pass and make teammates better (mostly done through his passing)

Natural + developed court-vision (which enhances his passing)

Ability to dictate pace (at least when it comes to pushing pace faster) via his own pacing, energy.

鲍尔的传球确实更强,不过我感觉鲍尔真正的强点在于:

先天加后天的那种无私传球和让队友更强(大多通过传球完成)的欲望;

先天加后天的视野(强化了他的传球);

通过个人节奏、能量掌控比赛节奏的能力。

[–][PHI] Allen Iverson McFuckhead 119 指標 8小時前

"Natural and/or developed unselfish desire to pass"

This to me just is just because of his desire to not shoot the ball if its not a good look. He doesn’t ever want to take difficult shots, sometimes even missing out on easy shots to pass it to someone else. It’s quite baffling sometimes. Other times it looks good though.

76人球迷:“先天加后天的那种无私传球欲望”

这点在我看来,他这就是机会不好就不出手的欲望。他从没想过出手有难度的球,有时甚至连一些简单的机会都不投,而是传出去。有时候很让人不解,不过其他时候还行吧。

[–]Jimmy___Gatz 98 指標 8小時前

It’s selfish not to shoot those open looks though.

那些空位机会还不出手那就是自私了。

[–]76ers 0ut0fBoundsException 15 指標 5小時前

Ben Simmons has left the chat

76人球迷:西蒙斯离开了群聊。

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【键盘侠】富尔茨和鲍尔谁更强|一个在上升 一个在退步?

[–][NOP] Anthony Davis BeastaBubbles 89 指標 9小時前

As someone who has to watch Lonzo all the time now: yes. Absolutely.

鹈鹕球迷:看了鲍尔所有比赛的我说一句:富尔茨更强。绝对的。

[–]Pelicans Assclown4 5 指標 6小時前

Lonzo is ass. He and Gentry both need to go.

鹈鹕球迷:鲍尔个菜鸡。他和金特里都得走人。

[–]Pelicans anon4953490 20 指標 8小時前

I think Zion and Favors (basically any great big not named Melli) really hide Lonzo’s weaknesses well on offense to make him thrive. Pretty sure we just gotta hold out and wait for the future because there’s obviously growing pains with every one of our talents right now (except BI).

鹈鹕球迷:我觉得锡安和费沃斯真的掩盖了鲍尔在进攻端的缺点,这才能让他闪光。我们还得等等啊,因为很明显的是,现在我们队里每一个有天赋的球员(除了英格拉姆)都在经历成长的阵痛。

[–][CLE] Mark Price WitOfTheIrish 7 指標 4小時前

And playing next to Jrue does the opposite and emphasizes his weaknesses. I think NOLA honestly needs to either cut their losses and trade Lonzo, or sell high while Jrue is at his max value right now (before Zion comes back and takes a big chunk of touches).

They simply aren’t a backcourt that works.

骑士球迷:鲍尔在霍乐迪身边打球就刚好相反,突出了他的缺点。我觉得鹈鹕要么及时止损送走鲍尔,要么就在高位卖掉霍乐迪(在锡安复出占据大量球权之前)

鲍尔和霍乐迪就不是一对能搭的后场。

[–]IDoesThis1 9 指標 12小時前

He might be. They both can’t shoot so that cancels out and fultz is way more athletic and aggressive

富尔茨或许更强,他和鲍尔都不能投,这点扯平了,不过富尔茨的运动天赋和侵略性要强太多。

[–]Bulls FIVE_DARRA_NO_HARRA 56 指標 10小時前

Markell is 47% from the floor and 79% from the line. Lonzo is 37% from the floor and 63% from the line. Absolutely doesn’t cancel out imo

公牛球迷:富尔茨的命中率是47%,罚球是79%。鲍尔命中率37%,罚球63%,这算哪门子的扯平。

[–][PHI] Julius Erving Bajecco 20 指標 9小時前

Lonzo is 29% on jump shots in 142 attempts. Fultz is 36% in 128 attempts. Both garbage jump shooters but yeah Fultz has been better especially considering he get’s to the rim way more.

76人球迷:鲍尔142次跳投命中率29%,富尔茨128次命中率36%。俩人的跳投都是垃圾,不过富尔茨确实更强,毕竟他冲击篮下的次数多不少。

[–]Celtics Swarthykins 217 指標 11小時前

Damn, I try not to pile too hard on Lonzo, but how do you shoot 37% from the field?

凯尔特人球迷:靠,我还想着不要对鲍尔太苛刻,不过你这37%的命中率是怎么做到的?

[–]hubau 22 指標 7小時前

And a lot of them are open looks. Defenses sag way off him. You can’t have your point guard kill your spacing in 2019.

而且很多还是空位,防守人防他的时候都会回撤。这都2019年了,你可不能让你的控卫这么损害进攻空间。

[–]Lakers KyleVikings 4 指標 5小時前

He is probably the worst player in the paint i’ve ever seen on the Lakers. He can’t make a contested layup.

湖人球迷:鲍尔或许是我见过的内线攻击力最菜的湖人球员,他在对抗下就不会上篮。

[–]Lakers Vans126 4 指標 5小時前

as someone who had to watch lonzo all the time: dude has ‘potential’ right? people waste so much time about this guy and god this dude is really a below avg player (he has his share of nice plays but they are rare). maybe he’ll pull a jaylen brown someday but he hasnt shown any progress in so long so can we stop talking about him for now?

湖人球迷:看过鲍尔所有比赛的我要说一句:这哥们儿真有“潜力”吗?你们在他身上浪费太多时间了,他真就是个平均线以下的球员(偶有闪光但非常少有)。或许某天他会打出杰伦-布朗的表现,不过他已经很长时间没有任何进步了,所以咱们能不要再聊他了吗?

[–]Hawks Maczuna 107 指標 9小時前

how can people watch lonzo and be like "hIs PoTeNtIaL tHo"

like honestly his game is ugly.

老鹰球迷:那些看过鲍尔比赛的人是怎么能说出“他有潜力”的。

说真的,他的比赛很难看。

[–]Raptors GoldenBunion 66 指標 8小時前

I’m seeing actual regression. Like his defence and passing were sharper before the trade. Had awful shooting. Now the two bright sides look poor

猛龙球迷:我还看到了他的退步。去鹈鹕之前,他的防守和传球好多了,当时只是投篮不行,现在那两个拿的出手的优点也不行了。

[–]Jimmy___Gatz 29 指標 8小時前

I just don’t think his passing was ever that good, he was good in transition but he never could run halfcourt offense…

我从不觉得他的防守有多厉害,他以前在转换进攻中的传球不错,不过半场阵地的时候压根不行啊……

[–]Lakers misterrunon 10 指標 7小時前

It’s true, he’s just a mediocre passer (especially in the half court). He has some highlight passes, mainly the full-court ones.. and then he gets a reputation for being a good passer.

湖人球迷:对的,他就是个普通的传球手(尤其是在半场进攻)。他有些高光的传球,主要是纵观全场的操作……然后大家就吹他的传球很厉害

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[–]Heat mostlylurkingg 6 指標 6小時前

Well, well, well….how the turntables

热火球迷:行行行,这口风真是大变啊

[–]Mavericks cannotthinkofarandom 17 指標 8小時前

Lonzo is not good, so I’ll go with yes. I’ll be surprised if Ball is ever even an average level starter. Yes hes good on D but he’s awful on offense.

Fultz is improving, I think his ceiling his higher and yes as of right now I’d take him over Ball.

独行侠球迷:鲍尔并不强,所以我觉得富尔茨比他厉害。鲍尔啥时候到过一个平均首发的水准,要真是这样我还奇了怪了。是,他防守不错,不过进攻稀烂。

富尔茨还在进步,我觉得他的上限更高,就现在来说,我觉得他比鲍尔强。

[–]Pistons drcash360-2ndaccount 5 指標 6小時前

I would say so. They’re both good defensively and are both good playmakers, but Fultz can actually do things offensively other than spot up shoot below average

活塞球迷:我也是这个态度。他俩防守都不错,组织能力也都可以,不过富尔茨除了定点投射菜点,其他的进攻能力还都可以。

[–][TOR] Pascal Siakam s picyphotsauce 41 指標 12小時前*

I’m still taking Zo. They’re both sub par scorers, with Lonzo being horrendous while Fultz is just normal bad. But Lonzo edges out Fultz in playmaking, rebounding as well as defence. I’d take that over a small advantage in scoring. That being said I wouldn’t want either of them to be my starting PG of the future.

猛龙球迷:我还是站鲍尔。他俩都是水准之下的得分手,鲍尔是极烂,而富尔茨也只是一般的水。可是鲍尔的组织能力、篮板和防守更强啊。话虽如此,他俩以后谁做我主队的首发控卫我都不能接受。

[–][GSW] Kevin Durant AsnSensation 42 指標 11小時前

The only ‚playmaking‘ he’s better at are outlet passes

勇士球迷:鲍尔在组织方面唯一更强的是他的跨场长传。

[–]Magic Byrie_Swirving 95 指標 12小時前

Lonzo edges him in playmaking? Lonzo has an awful handle and can’t create anything in the half court. He can’t get to the rim, he can’t run a pick n roll. They are both dyanamic transition players Lonzo looks to pass in transition while Fultz is more of a finisher. Lonzos defense has also slipped a lot according to pels fans while Fultz has been quite good this season.

魔术球迷:鲍尔的组织能力更强?鲍尔的控球很水,半场进攻毫无创造力。他不能杀篮下,不能打挡拆。转换进攻的时候,鲍尔是寻求传球,而富尔茨更像个终结者。根据鹈鹕球迷的说法,鲍尔的防守下滑了很多,而富尔茨这个赛季的防守是很不错的。

[–]Raptors IndigoRivers 33 指標 12小時前

I’m a huge Lonzo supporter to the point that guys target me for it. Fultz is better right now. He also is a more practical playmaker right now. He can actually run a NBA offense while it looks tough for lonzo at times. I’d argue their defense is the same if not fultz being better.

猛龙球迷:我原本是很喜欢鲍尔的,直到大家都因此来针对我。富尔茨现在更强,而且他是个更能组织的球员。他还真能发起进攻,而鲍尔有时候真是很难办。防守的话,我觉得他俩半斤八两。

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来源:Reddit

编译:云长刮个痧

美帝键盘侠—歪果仁精彩评论汇总

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